Reading all of the above, I thank klobbe333 for his posting and thoughts. However, I would agree that Supreme Master is "the man" and posts the most compelling argument...

Would love to hear more of your adventures...

-Gazemberv

Supreme for once I agree on what you say

This has always been an interesting discussion... one of ideology, belief and philosophy. For all people you have a very wide spectrum and range of thoughts on this issue. From religious fanatics, to swingers that want to have kink in their sex life, to players, predators, insecure people that want to pretend they are in control, to women that read fetish books and fantasize themselves living in the storybook, and so forth.

A lot of the opinions of a person is directly based upon their own past as well as culture and internal motivation. We are all programmed, the big difference is recognizing the programming within yourself and doing something about it. It is easy to point the finger, but next to impossible for people to look within themselves honestly dispelling their own denial.

In theory, the OP is correct in his assessment of a No-limit slave, even though what he states as proof is extreme. If one has the concept that a slave is nothing more than a piece of meat then a slave master of that belief system would find justification in those actions. Yet at the same time if you look at history and how slaves were treated in history you just might find this type of behavior. Yet on the most part, a slave was an investment. As any normal investment, you did not maim or kill your investment. You spend a lot of time training the correct attitude and behavior and value to your house. Would you take a pipe wrench to your car just to see what it feels like to destroy your car? Of course not.

Therefore when looking at the reality of a no limit slave, you also need to look at reasonable assumption. If you are confident of your own training ability and the ties that binds your slave to you than why do you need to use an extreme test to determine their loyalty? Using the care as another example; would you run your car at a high RPM full out to see if it can stand the stress without blowing a piston? For what reason? To satiate your ego to have bragging rights about your car? What if you then blow a piston? What then? The cost of repair etc. etc. etc...

Now let's look at slave or house reality... Do you "Play" every day, day in and day out? Notice the initial word I use... "Play." Play is only a minor part of a slave's use. So what do you need a slave for? You let her lay around until you have sexual use for her... depending upon your libido? Are you nothing more than just a swinger that like kink and using women for your own ends sexually? Are you more serious and use the slave to make you life better integrating appropriate kink and play for side entertainment? What is your need and use for a slave in the first place?

I have had numbers of slaves over the last 20+ years, many have said they were no limit only to find that their idea of no limit was a bit narrow. You are looking at women and people that have been programmed by a dysfunctional Corporate Government that creates slaves (14th amendment) out of everybody. If you don’t thank you are a slave to this Government corporation try driving without plates on your car (no you don't own your car, or you land, or even your kids... but that is another discussion).

My point is that the schools and the prevalent culture has brain washed everybody so totally that it takes a major deprogramming program to un-do the psychological and societal damage. (Programming is found self perpetuating through schools, TV, News Media, Movies, and so forth.

It also go to the arena of what your needs are individually as a Owner of a slave. I have seen many self proclaimed so called Master advertise that they are Sadistic and extreme when in fact they are just immature and fantasizing... Personally, I get a laugh at anybody under 30 saying they are a Master as they have not matured enough to really know the full meaning of the responsibility outside of "Play." I was one that had to earn the title rather than just put in on my profile and declaring myself a Master.

So if you really want a no-limit slave, then you need to be a fully functional, mature, responsible, knowledgeable, and trustworthy person. After that you then find a slave that you can work with and train mentally, psychologically, and physically. You will then base your expectations in reality and not fantasy. Point in hand, I promised my slave to be exclusive to my house, not to be fucked by outsiders.... yet their is no question in my mind that if I ordered her to fuck the mayor that she would do it without hesitation. What stops me from doing that or testing that? My own integrity.

As I seek to add another slave to my house, I look at the whole package and the attitude of the slave. Not what they claim, because most have no clue... they are playing a fantasy game with themselves, scamming, or are just trying to get out of a current bad situation. Many are trying to go to the next step but are still stuck in the sexual and fetish level. Some want to be used but are to immature to understand the full significance of giving up total power to another. As long as they are whored or used sexually, they are happy... When you use them for domestic duties and the daily chores of life, then you are bursting their bubble. Many women just want to be given permission to be a slut and to be whored out sexually and are not really interested in any other aspect of being a slave. Although there is a very minor group of various ages that are true and actually ready to enter the occupation of TPE and IP slave. Yet because of the many road hazards and sweet talkers, they are often fooled by pretenders, players, and inexperienced men with short dick syndrome. This creates a bad situation and ultimately creates a bad attitude in what might have been an excellent potential slave. Another fallacy that I have noticed is the excessive miss-information on forums that create false expectations based upon loud mouth slave pretenders that are insecure and want their voice to be heard. This is nothing worse than getting advice from Cosmo, or Dear Abby.

Another thought on what you say... you are in favor of isolationism, that is a very dangerous slope to tread in the consensual world. Family social connections go a long way to the mental health of a slave. Especially for women that are connected to their families. Again in my own example, I encourage my slave to be in contact with her mother and daughter which in the long run gives her a fulfillment of extended family and results in better behavior from her. Yes, I have tried isolation when I was young and the reality was that it was a disaster in the mental health of my slaves at the time. I learned from my mistake. In some slaves through, when their are no family ties due to circumstances, I then create family ties within my own house. This then enables house identification, loyalty and, dedication.

Just my 4 cents worth of rambling....

I would say like the others have you are living in a fantasy world. However if you believe what you are saying then you are a very dangerous person!

i would tend to agree with you kittykitty, but the response you are likely to get on this site is that as long as it is "consensual" *anything* is A-OK... the Doms with the most integrity that i have met along the way have a tremendous ability to discern what is truly consent, and not merely reactivity to extreme traumas, which such experiences "consensual" or otherwise will only serve to perpetuate the negative effects of in the overall personality and ability to function well of the sub. there is a lot of research on the subconscious mind in relation to the nervous system, and it's propensity to recreate circumstances similar to the original trauma- the most profound experience of "flight or fight" a person has ever had as a way to "master" and eventually become free of the original trauma.. because the kind of rewiring that can take place during such an experience can create a perpetual state of flight or fight, which is a terrible place to be in in mind AND body, one that seeks an experience of resolution so that rest (homeostasis) can take place...the thing is, people mostly get stuck in these endlesss cycles trauma re-trauma, which can take terrible tolls on the person, as other facilities such as memory, ability to learn and process or contextualize experience, cognitive abilities, and the ability to have fulfilling relationships and experiences all can diminish over time when the nervous system is stuck is such a state..the person becomes a profoundly distorted and disturbed version of themselves.
then the professed "master" can just say, "Hey, she asked for it." it was "consensual"

years ago, when i used to play as a Domme, i got my hands on a few of those "masters" and WOW!! that was fun

"If the owner said i want you to have sex with this boy then you do it" No, she should contact the police and report Master's victimization of boys.

"If he says i want to know what it is like to stick a knife in someone. Then you let him and you take the consequences." No, you come to the immediate conclusion that Master is very likely psychopatheic and part ways with him.

"If he says you will never see your family again then you don't." No, you tell him that you can't in all good conscience turn your back on those that love you.

" If he says i am going to hook clips to your nipples and clit and then run wires from them to a plug and i am going to plug it in an electrical outlet and see what happens then you do it." Since an electrical oulet is typically 110 volts and such an activity could likely cause death, you tell him no way and severe the relationship.

"What if he wanted to fuck with her mind and make her mentally useless? Then go for it." Sounds like he's talking about a lobotomy. Slave , again, needs to severe relationship.

"a slave is not human. there should be no law to protect it." This is remarkably similar to the way most psychopaths view their victims. If you really believe this kloobe333, then you get my vote for most dangerous man on Slavefarm.

Kloobe333 -

In my opinion, this is the edge (actually over the edge) of safe, sane and consensual. I am not a legal expert, but both master abd slave should proceed cautiously regarding some of the items suggested. Some sound criminal or borderline criminal.

Thanks for posting that article daniellinda. It makes some very good points and I think many people would benefit from reading it. Unfortunately I fear it will be lost on those who would most benefit from read it.

quite succinctly expressed, and painfully true.But then, if they ALL understood, the search would not be worthwhile.It would be reduced to a mundane exercise.Having is not nearly so exhilarating as wanting.

here is a great article that touches well on the cyber fantasyworld vs the reality of creating and maintaining a healthy D/s relationship.
(hope my comments aren't deleted!)
http://gos.sbc.edu/p/peachum.html