Like I said, My post was more of a fact finding mission as to what others thought. And like your friend I find somebody that talks a good story doesn't impress me. I find observing them and how they play and act as a person, Has by far and away more merit than their story. And a repeat of before I did find you link a good read.

As I understand it, the "old guard" mentality is almost like a picture perfect view of bdsm. All the rules and cult like rhetoric. That there was some devine organization that trained, indoctrinated and ultimately informed all groups that are around today.

My local group references "old guard" probably more than most as they are more adherent to a romanticized version of leather and rules of what they thought the gay leather community was. I imagine from the review I read that the book was written from someone that had their head up their ass or the internet, but I haven't had the pleasure to partake of that.

Just thought I'd add to the conversation. Hope you find the reading interesting.

BTW, the guy who kind of took me under his wing talks of the fallacy of "old guard" quite often. He too was taught under a mistress before he practiced or considered himself a Dom. So, you're not alone. He would never balk or swoon at a proclaimed old guard personality.

thanks for the info!

Like I said it is a grey area to me. All I know is I was apprenticed as a slave before I was allowed to top. In the responses so far, one made reference to gay committee. I am not gay nor did I know anything of this. Nor did I know anything of the term old guard until several couples mentioned it when I told them of my past.My blog was more of an attempt at a fact finding mission. trying to find out what it meant to others. I did find what you added an interesting read though. Although I cant picture why there would be such a heated debate over something that never probably existed. Even if it did it is ancient history and really does not have an impact or shouldn't have anyway on a society where people can claim they are Dom when they don't even know what they are doing or have any experience.

Kevan,

I'm just getting into real life discussions about this, which seems to be very heated here in Utah.

Some of the local leaders have been discussing this book review and seem to look at it as the truth, that there is no real "old guard", but a rather romanticized version of where leather clubs were born and evolved.

http://www.leatherati.com/leatherati_issues/2012/01/a-guest-editorial-re...

I hope you find it as thought provoking as I have

-pip

Well it has been a while and I thank those that contributed. For those that read and didn't contribute. I hope it gave you something to think about. Although still a grey area, it would appear that what I had been told is the general consensus held by the majority of those that had heard the term. Hoping everybody has had a great day.

Kevan

Being a member of the "Old Guard" from the generation who are now heading for obscurity, many of whom have already passed their use by date and many others who have already gone to that great dungeon in the sky, I will give you my definition of what "Old Guard" means to me. First however "bdsmboundless" has come very close to hitting the nail on the head so to speak. I do not use the term often myself except when asked, to point out where and how I got my knowledge and experience from in the begining. Back in those days 45 years ago it was almost impossible to learn the craft of Bdsm without some kind of training from those who were already knowlegeable and experienced, preferably by being taken under the wing of an experienced mentor. At that time most Bdsm was kept within small private groups because in the eyes of the law it was still an illegal practice and carried out mainly "underground". Membership of these groups was by invitation only and all prospective members (both Dom/Masters and sub/slaves) were well vetted before any invitation was made. We were taught not only the physical practices but also the psychological and emotional aspects of Bdsm. In addition we learned the philosophy behind Bdsm and the principles and ethics required within it. It was also encumbent on those who passed through this system to maintain the control and knowledge and pass it on to future generations of those who genuinely wanted to learn.

Mention has been made in previous posts about the "Old Guard" being connected to the "Leathermen" set and originating within it. There is a misconception here, probably because both the heterosexual Bdsm practioners and the gay leather practitioners had their own hierarchy of members who were regarded as being the "Old Guard". Whether this was universally accepted I do not know because Bdsm has only become universal in concept with the advent of the internet.

This is only some thoughts from my perspective, but I would assume the term was more relevant prior to the internet, when actually being invited into the realm of BDSM and trained by members of the "old guard" was the appropriate and accepted method.
Perhaps it stretches back to the leather men, post world war 2. As each of the old guard passes, another takes his place, literally as a guard and to continue maintaining the system of control both through education and shall we say recruitment.

My introduction to BDSM was quite similar to yours "mermadon", but more specifically orientated toward the human animal lifestyle. The most important lesson I was ever taught was to preserve and maintain the philosophies passed to me by those who I regard highly as "old guard", and to continue to educate others by passing that knowledge forward to the next generations.

LOL good story Supreme Master. I don't use the term on myself, but used my case as to what some people see it as. I whole heartedly agree with you that there does not seem to be a very well defined space and seems to mean many different things to those that use the term. That is why I did the post as I like to learn and exchange ideas.

As far as the quick disappearances go. I find a lot (not so much here) of chat rooms have the people that show up and are "oh yea I have been around forever" routine and if you ask them anything they are quick to disappear, because they don't want to be discovered as not being what they claim. Myself if I don't know about something, I say I don't know. But I am eager to learn. Yes I am old enough to remember the villiage people and to be honest I have never heard the term Old Guard used in a gay connotation, but understand what you are saying. Thanks for responding and hope you are having a great day.

Kevan

I can't recall hearing the term within the BDSM context very often. But when I have it was to poke fun at someone whose appearance was similar to the guy who dresses up as the leather man in the Village People. That look and the culture it represented is where the term, "the Old Guard" comes from and is most applicable to.

Within the realm of heterosexual BDSM, the term does not have a well defined place, if any at all. I'm glad too, because I've been known to wear a pair of tight black leather pants when I have a fistful of luxurious sub hair in my hand. I'm thinking that those quick disappearances you made reference to could be the result of others, who associate a gay connotation to the phrase, surmise that you might want to take a walk on the wild side.

So next time I'm out and about and I hear the song YMCA or Macho Man, I'm going to be thinking of you, Mermadon. Just kidding, of course. But, be careful about telling folks you're "old guard". You might accidentally take home a sub who's packing meat.