yukio - all through this subject you have demonstrated some good reason and causes that all should be aware of. However, you have made it sound like you are just another 'hurt little boy' who didn't get his way. yes, I agree that this is a just subject, however, those of US who have learned through experience can only do what we can do - surely nothing is at we would like it to be. We live, learn and grow from our life experiences. just as when we were young; mom told us, 'don't play with matches, you will get burned' - as children we had to learn for ourselves the damage that a match can do to your finger or hand or even a home. I believe that those who are new to the lifestyle are more interested in the sexual aspect of the BDSM world and the pain they can inflict - a very misconstrued notion. If I may suggest - let's bury the 'hatchet' and not into each other.

peace, love, happiness and a fresh new flogger,

Breastman

Cnsane - I couldn't have stated it better. A top spins for a while and wobbles and before you know it, it is wobbling all over the place until it just falls over. Maybe poor little 'yukio' is one of those 'weeble people' - is his light that of a shooting star, burning brightly until it just burns out?

I must say, this yukio person, is sure making an ass of himself and for the submissives and slaves who are reading - please, not all Dominants (male/female) are not like this 'lugnut' - or should I say 'wingnut'?

'little bo yukio has lost a sheep - BFD!! Yukio you are the problem and you are also the solution - stop trying to sway others to feel sorry for you - grow up dude -

You can lead a horse to Water, but if it breaks it's leg You gotta' shoot it.

"who think I am beating a dead horse, I am not.  I am showing you a fault in the whole dom/sub process and where you are leaving yourself open for similar experiences." 

You are not showing U/s a fault in the whole Dom/sub process, you are entertaining U/us with your first-hand highlights of the differences between Virtual Reality and Real Time. Also, a lot of U/us will never be open to similar experiences because W/we are already Living in Dom/sub relationships. Life is a cascade of physical experiences and opportunities whereas online is telling others the stories that O/our Minds concoct. Some of those stories are true, some are embellished, and some are make-believe. I would rather manipulate My aspirations into Reality than fantasize about My dreams over the Internet. You started this thread with what you assumed was a gyroscopic-like stability, but each reply you post adds to your nutation. And when a Top starts to wobble, W/we all know what happens next. My analogy can be taken as a hint or as Good Advice, depending on whether you heed it. In other words, I believe I just shot this horse.

Greetings and salutations!! I agree with MasterDelvin - all that he wrote makes perfectly logical sense. I have questions:

How can a Master/Owner truly claim possession of a slave/sub if they are not together? Can a person look at a car in a display room and call it his, only to watch someone else buy the exact car? Does he have right the right to go and bitch out the car salesman for selling his car?? HELL NO!! Or better yet - can this man go and tell the new car owner that the car he purchased was actually his car, he just hadn't paid for it yet; and he wants it and he wants it now!! HELL NO!!

Regarding online "ownership" - at the risk of getting my ass put through a ringer - it is my personal opinion that all of this online ownership, online consideration for collar, etc., is just something that makes no damn sense to me at all. Words are words and only words!! Until there is an actual 'transaction' between consenting persons there is nothing but a bunch of meaningless lines of words - whether they be put in writing or not.

Yukio - give it a rest and move on. As a Dominant male for many years, I have realized that it is the female who does the selecting of who she wants to be her Master/Owner; not the male. If the male had the control of choosing and taking the female - why bother with ads? Why not just go to a BDSM event and literally take a female and claim her as your property. Once the female has made her choice - it is the male who is in charge - but not until then.

take care and be safe,

Breastman

 

A possession is not a possession until it is owned!!

yukio - you claim to be a Dominant male and yet you seem more like a child who didn't get his way. poor, poor little boy. The female has told all that has read what happened, you say she apologized to you (which by the way I would not have let her even waste her time in resonse to you if she were mine) so don't you think it is time for you to show a little bit of adultness and shut the fuck up!!!

I don't know who else agrees with me but this subject was over when the Master/Owner of the slave spoke up.

yukio -(no caps for little men)- stay where you are have enjoy the life of a mindless midget.

Good evening,

Here is what I see from reading all of this to this point ;

Master and slave talk online, and make up a contract online to be used. Now, slave decided not to be owned by this Master and sought another...

------

A few things here that from speaking with this slave in the past screams out some questions that of course really doesn't need to be answered now but should at least be mentioned ;

1: Did the Master discuss ALL aspects of slavery with this slave ?

2: Did the slave explain ALL aspects of her desire ?

3: Where both honest ? Where both on the right road to having her come to him ?

4: Did the Master make arrangements with slave and both agreed on a date and time where she would come ?

------

Again, these do not need to be answered but I for one hold great stock in Contracts ONCE I have the girl beg for her collar at my feet, not online ever. I do not mind an online start as that is the easier of the two choices and safer these days for the girls out there. No sweat, but I don't get my panties in a bunch when a girl doesn't want to come to me. It simply wasn't meant to be.

I have no problems going and getting the girl (did with starshine), and have no problems with the girl comming to me. Even though she is here, at my home and learning, this is exactly why I give one year and one day for the slave. A contract is made (while she is sitting there in front of me), and we make damn sure what I am saying she is hearing and what she is begging for I am understanding. We sign and that first year is her trial period as well as Mine. It has to be there for many obvious reasons and once that year is up, a very emotional trial for that girl is given and walla, a happily owned slave for life.

The girl should have had the respect to that Master and tell him that it will not work (if that was the case), the second Master is wrong for not working with this first Master to clear the air so this post should have never happened and finally, I believe all three of you have boched this up but do hope you have learned from this and hope you all can continue on the road you need.

Master D

 

Good evening everyone,

 

Humbly speaking, i would like to inject what i think is an impartial slave’s point of view on this subject.

 

While i do feel remorse for Yukio’s situation, i cannot feel anything but happiness and joy for Dark Lord Fluffy and lynn. It is very rare indeed when a slave finds what she feels is her “ideal Master.”

 

When i read Sir’s account of how He instructed lynn to break off all contacts with her “past”, and how she faithfully obeyed, it actually made me cry. Not because i found her actions, or His instructions so extreme, but because of the devotion this slave showed/is showing her Master. she is living the life she has dreamed of and she has found a Master who is making it so. Why can’t we be happy for them? How often does this type of devotion come along? i personally feel honored to have been able to read of their current life story. Thank you Sir for informing us of how things are progressing with lynn and yourself. 

 

i feel you both have taught me what real service is, and you have given me hope that someday what i dream of everyday will come true…..a life of total service and devotion to a strict, wonderful Master.

 

Congratulations and all my best,

justine

Personally iIfind the entire idea of online slaves rediculous. All you married folks, appearance and age liars, and other sundry vermin who don't have the courage to play realy games with real people are pretty pathetic.

Sure, we have all the above on the site (as with other bdsm sites).

Sure, some never make the transition from online to Real Life, but some do, some are.

For some it is just sessions, some sessions and control outside of these sessions, and for some, it is a lifetime commitment. 

And those of us who aren't players, do seem to be able to recognise those that are.

Personally iIfind the entire idea of online slaves rediculous.  All you married folks, appearance and age  liars, and other sundry vermin who don't have the courage to play realy games with real people are pretty pathetic. 

not to split hairs but I'm afraid that she wasn't asserting herself but begged me to allow her to respond to the post she did, and because I wanted to see what exactly she would write I allowed her to. 

Is there really more to be said?  Yukio, the fact that she e-mailed you a contract doesn't mean squat.  What are you going to do with that contract--sue?  Owning a bitch means owning a bitch, and since you don't own the bitch, you don't own the bitch.

Of all the comments I've read so far only one has it right!You are ALL just playing games.  You pretend you are this great bully of a man.  Or the "slave" is nothing more than a female with a warped mind looking for kicks in a mundane life.  Do any of you know what REAL slavery is?  "Collared, posturing,  training to pose, and so on are games, people, not slavery.  A slave has NO rights of any kind. Ever heard of a real slave getting a "bride price"?  Slave Farm slavery is a consensual sex game not slavery.  So Yukio you got hung out to dry.  Next time try the real thing.  Real slave owners aren't Masters but OWNERS! You want to play games then stop whining when someone changes the rules

L eeY

an owner 

Greetings..~smiles~

In all fairness...this post is alittle off the mark when it comes to Brokenwill. She was exactly that type of slave that wanted to be forced, taken, kidnapped, removed from all of society and treated like a animal in captivity..bluntly-very harsh.

Recalls reading some of the things she wanted/needed when this girls Owners spoke to her, and it was not practical or feasible to Master..nor a realistic endeavor without altering his way of living. Nothing wrong with that, and he wished her well in her search..but he wasn't going to alter his way of life to cater to a slave.

So what you have posted that is "not" real slavery is exactly the sort of slavery she was seeking, and seems to have found.

The only discrepancy again here is that if a contract is going to have merit..then its strength is only going to come if it's applied equally by those involved..either to break it or make good on it.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

Of all the comments I've read so far only one has it right!You are ALL just playing games.  You pretend you are this great bully of a man.  Or the "slave" is nothing more than a female with a warped mind looking for kicks in a mundane life.  Do any of you know what REAL slavery is?  "Collared, posturing,  training to pose, and so on are games, people, not slavery.  A slave has NO rights of any kind. Ever heard of a real slave getting a "bride price"?  Slave Farm slavery is a consensual sex game not slavery.  So Yukio you got hung out to dry.  Next time try the real thing.  Real slave owners aren't Masters but OWNERS! You want to play games then stop whining when someone changes the rules

L eeY

an owner 

The only thing that really bothered me in all this is that two of this girl's 'owners' or what have you used her full name. in my experience using a full name is not welcomed most of the time.

My Master now owns everything about me.  My body my nane everything.  He took the time to destroy every human relationship Ive ever had and removed me from everyone I ever loved.  I humbly beg my Master to use my true name in any way that he chooses.  It is no longer even mine it belongs truely to him.  I also thank my Master for allowing me to post this finally.  He has kept me chained and in bondage and have been unable to do anything other than read at his side in my kneel.  I do not expect he will permit it often as Master enjoyed my body in bondage and using me hard and cruel.  Thank you Master for permitting your slave to post.

The only thing that really bothered me in all this is that two of this girl's 'owners' or what have you used her full name. in my experience using a full name is not welcomed most of the time.

 

as to contracts and what they are worth are all up to the people that sign them. my Master owns my life. Everyone else tells me honestly that He does not, and could not kill me. To me, He could take my life and all i do is for Him.

 

it's really up to the people that make teh contract and how much they have to gain and how much they are willing to risk. 

 

  I guess there is absolutely no reason to have a contract is there? 

Amen to that !

Submission is in the mind.

Circumstances test each and everyones submission from time to time.

Would the Master/Mistress prefer a willing slave, giving of their submisison, to one who no longer wanted to submit, and having to take them by force?

I think this broaches a number fo subject all slaves and Masters should consider, irrespective of this particular case.

Contracts and their use.

If a contract is mere words or means more and thus have any validity? If taken seriosuly does it require hand written signatures or are electronic signatures acceptable? Can a contract which can be phrased differently, like in terms of an employment contract or other legal enforceable manner be done to ensure a slave has an obligation? Anyone have examples of contracts and perhaps let us lok at the ways contracts differ.

Interesting point of discussion? Prehaps requires a new Forum topic?

can we cry over spilt milk if she is gone she was not yours to start with so set her free

Interesting conundrum. I believe the whole issue pivots around mental control, specifically, the degree of domination of another persons Mind. I laugh when My painslave tells Me about other people hitting on her and other Doms. trying to poach her for a quickie. I tell her to take it as a compliment that they find her desireable and to see if she's manipulative enough to get them to buy her a drink or some gasoline. And on the side bar topic; I think it's called Virtual Reality because that doesn't sound as Ego bruising as Make Believe.

"Never had?  Well if that is the case the master/mistresses and all others who claim Dominance over another and who own on-line slaves are not really masters and don't really own anyone...They have a contract, they give orders bla bla bla. Most would not question their ownership... But you are saying it is "consensual" so they can just up and leave, right?    I had a contract for real life with this slave, however just had not gotten to that yet... So,  "One can not own what one never had." is reative."...............................................

What then would be the opposite of this then Master Yukio to prove that you were not a fake Master, and took just as much stock in that electronically signed email? You packing up your bags to head to where she's at and forcefully take back to China that which you own? If you hold that much stock and truth in that to apply it to the slave
then surely you'd apply that to your being her Master, and owner with full right as well no?

Still feels she should of communicated her change of plans if she infact did not, and chose to simply disappear. Thats a destructive measure for all involved in this lifestyle, and leads exactly to this sort of issue of who's real, not, fake, wannabe, yada, yada, yada.

Sorry for your loss but she seems to have found what she needed in this life, and thats what were all seeking.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

ok a couple posts came in while I was making mine so I'd like to add just a few things. First lynn is 29 I'm 22 and this is a LIFEstyle for me, as in I need this to live and have gone through hell for it including almost losing my family and long before that my life because said family and the religion they crammed down my throat taught me I was evil for being a sadist and worse for wanting slaves. Second I hear alot of talk about how lynn will get whats coming to her but the simple fact is, yes I know that this may yet come back and take a big ol'bite out of my backside, that he was not right for her and as such unless hes willing to "settle" she was not right for him either. I like Yukio, I really do, hes a intelligent, experienced Master and isn't full of shit like so many people who call themselves Master.

However he invested nothing in the form of effort aside from talking to her and telling her the life he planned for her. Also, and I am reasonably certain she would have mentioned this to him too, she has repeatedly professed her love for me bit in the same breath begged me not to love her and I don't. Whatever he may have felt for her she did not want and I am certain if she even suspected that he cared for her more than you would any piece of valuable property she would have bolted  if she was in china or still online.

I have been lied to; made a fool of,etc. I attribute tis to the fact that this BDSM Lifestyle (although taken very seriously by many) has become a 'fad' with the younger people. This lifestyle is not all about sex,pain, bondage, etc. It is a real life with real commitments. The is one demand that I have now imposed upon potential property - she must provide for her cost of transportation to me - this shows me that the slave is serious about her being owned property. Should she be already owned and being released by a Master/Mistress she will need to let me contact said Master/Mistress. The people who live this lifestyle rely upon truth, honesty and respect - just as in the 'vanilla world'. Do not dwell in the past - learn from your mistakes (as I have) and continue your search- there is a slave with whom you will be a perfect match.

Breastman

ok so everyone by now is wondering who the "other" owner of  lynn marie tullius aka beatenbrokenslave aka brokenwilledLynn is and I know i'm gonna get shit hammered for it but I'm not ashamed to say, its me. 

Now before everyone starts lobbing their "poacher"'s and "fake"'s at me I think you need to understand the other side of the story.

Yukio is a great Master I'm sure and deserves a good slave BUT the simple fact not to put too fine a point on it he was not going to give her what she wanted and needed. Secondly the fact she may have signed a contract is moot because a non-legally binding contract that is "electronically signed" is no more binding than air, I wonder if he would be hounding her like this if she were unattractive.

To explain things more fully I will tell everyone why I am not ready to give lynn up and why she left Yukio behind.

When I first met lynn she was with Yukio and I treated her like I would any owned slave I met online. I spoke with her as though she were just another person and provided protection when another Dom tried to poach her from Yukio. In short I considered her an acquaintance. In any case over the next few months I first took a sabbatical to get my life together after some rather drastic changes and then developed a relationship and eventually realized while I to this day I care for her I could never be happy with her. So almost a year after I left I decided it was time to start looking for a slave again something I had been looking for for a few months prior to my sabbatical but came to find the chat room, once lively and fun to be a ghost town.

One night, sometime in august, while killing time trying to hopefully attract a few curious people with my presence (when you are an insomniac you have that kind of time) brokenwilledLynn entered the room and we began talking and to my surprise she was unowned as she and Yukio had gone their separate ways. Having respect for Yukio and being reasonably certain of lynns seriousness I didn't press the issue assuming it had been mutual at very least. I agreed to take lynn on and give her the life she desired one that she told me very early on to include the total destruction of her current life, friends, family and husband. I did not have a problem with this and began planning a regime that would gradually but assuredly destroy everything she ever held dear and take any possibility of her leaving away. I spent weeks having her make minute changes at first slowly building up to larger ones, attacking at once her job, her friends and her husband. I waited and read the signs and had her kick her husband out before he did the same to her, I stood by her and helped her deal with the anguish when she sent a letter detailing her servitude and including pictures of her in slave positions to her father and brother. I helped her through the insuring backlash of these events by talking to her father and husband taking their death threats, bribe attempts and general curses not to mention managing to slowly talk her husband into allowing the divorce to proceed and managing to get her father enraged enough for her to get a restraining order. (I should mention at this time that after her last Master passed her family actually had her institutionalized for wanting to be a slave.) 

It was about this time that I happened to see Yukio in chat and decided that out of respect I would tell her she was with me and only then did I discover she had left him rather than be released. Now while he did at the time mention the contract he seemed in no way bothered by the fact that she was with me and I in fact wished us well. 

Not having Yukio's contact information I spoke with lynn about it and discovered that the reason she had left was because not only was Yukio unhappy with her but also because he was unprepared to destroy her life in the manner she wanted, and not prepared to give her the 24/7 slavery she wanted, specifically he wanted her to be vanilla in public while she wished to be collared, cuffed, leashed and treated with the same in public as she was in private. Assuming everything was ok I continued with my regime destroying her friends and discovering that while most were horrified two were actually intrigued by her slavery. I helped her through the motions of her divorce (still ongoing) and worked with her till she was fired from her job for incompetence, in subordination and general unprofessionalism. I planned on how and when she would come to see me to insure that no private eye hired by her family or still then clinging husband and no police investigating her disappearance would be able to follow. I prepared so she would be taken care of should anything happen to cut short my life after she got here and prepared so that with the exception of a select few no one would ever know she was there. In essence I prepared a life for her that would be what she wanted: chains, terrible and creative tortures and humiliations, cages, slavery in public complete with collar, cuffs, leash and eating off the floor. In point of fact the slavery lynn desired was the type of slavery I desired to give and have given her exactly.  In point of fact she has never asked any concession from me and the only one I ask of her is to wear clothing in public to avoid being charged with indecency.

So almost 6 moths after I first took lynn on as a slave and a solid 3 after I spoke to Yukio and was wished well by him, I discover that he has been berating lynn and trying to get her back and when he saw that it was not possible he began insulting her and I and mad the post that started this thread.

Now what I would put forth to the community is this: When you meet someone online and never actually see them face to face, even if you have them "electronically sign" (still makes me laugh) do you actually own them? In other words if a slave can leave just by not doing something like logging on do you actualy own them. Yes we say we do but do we really?

Master1alan asked if online slaves were really slave then and I would take a long hard look if they are because if none of them are slaves then it would explain to me why there are so many fakes out there. Looking for a slave and even giving a little training online is all fun and good but until you actually meet them then there really is no difference between your online slavery and role playing.

Oh and to respond to the message you left her. For the record Yukio thank you for saying she settled for number two but I have to decline the honor. I always thought I was a good Master and have tried to be the best I can be and maybe I'm in the middle somewhere, but to say I'm the number two in the world gives me way more credit than I deserve.  

 

 

     i find it intresting more havent responded to this thread that said i think too many people play on here play with words (change what real definitions are) play with peoples emotions (fakers, liars, sceemers) ~play in general. Yukio i for one feel for you, i know you seek something real this person took advantage of you~ wasted your time and generally f'ed with your emotions you didnt deserve that and im sorry that happened to you but know this my friend this person's time will come ~its eventual...and games cant always be played. sometime even if we dont see it, everyone reeps what they've sown~ Yukio, i wish you luck in finding what you seek.

 this is copied from a  Dms  friend blog

 I had a friend that was sitting on his porch and his pet was sitting at his feet with her head resting on his knee and one day quite unexpectedly he watched his pet get up and walk out of his yard and across the street. For weeks he plastered these sheets of papers all over the neighborhood that said “Lost Pet please call if you have any information that could help me.” I always wondered about that. I use to think it was funny how people would say that they “Lost a

 

 

Pet”. Like the pet was a pair of keys or a receipt that slid between the cushions of a movie seat, when the truth of the matter is that the pet just left.

 

 

Then I lost my own pet… the pet that use to sit at my feet and rest her head on my knee… and just like him I watched her walk out of my yard and across the street and I wanted to post signs that said “Lost Pet please call if you have any information that could help me” because it was easier to believe that she was lost than to accept that she would leave.

Topic being place in the Chinese Forum because I live here in China. Many months ago I had been prepping a slave to come to China. I  ... But, she agreed to sign the contract... Then chickened out. I would love to hear from those here who have has similar problems with the slaves here on slavefarm. Have you personal experience with a chicken-out slave? Was she in your contract when she chickened out?

Yukio,

You don't mention the age of this so-called slave, but in my experience the younger the girl the less seriously she takes the concept of a vow or a contract. From the absurdity of being "collared online" (and playing slave over the 'net) to thinking this is nothing more than sex play, it seems that age has a lot to do with it.

In your position, having made it public, I would post this girl's name in every M/s forum you can find and make it clear to the world that she has no honor and does not deserve the word "slave", and that all should shun her. Make it impossible for her "owner" to take her to a club for play, a munch for talk, make her the laughingstock of the M/s world.

Just one view.

Master Alan 

slavery begins in the mind, not on a piece of paper

Yukio,

Given that the contract is unenforceable from a strict legal perspective (or at least it is here in the United States).........

That said, given this particular slave, what goes around comes around, and her new Master may find himself in your shoes some day.

 this is why it called consensual slavery. They(the supposed slaves), can change their minds at any time and just pick up and go. Might try what I have thought about at times. Keep GOOD records of costs. If they walk.. you DO have the right to seek your costs back if you have a contract( real one here) saying they must repay all costs in their upkeep,if  they renig before completion of the terms.

Yukio ...............  I do hope you have your bunker built and flack jacket close at hand .............  there is gonna be some wild comments on your topic.  I myself will in time add to the glowing embers.

'Good luck

There is far too much of this going on in our comunity. To a great extent I blame it on Masters who seem not to respect other Masters and their property. So very many wanna be players out there when it come to becoming a slave. Many of these so called slaves do not seem to be of the fiber it takes to become a slave. On the plus side, better to have a so called slave vanish early on before the Master has comitted time and effert into training. As you said Let it be written Let it be done LOL

Greetings..~smiles~

One can not own what one never had.

Do find it pretty lame on the slaves part to just up and disappear instead of communicating her decision change though.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin