Let me ask this, would you consider beating a slave repeatedly till she's black from bruises and you've broken the two inch thick cutting board in the process acceptable ........

 

OK, there is a difference between "extreme" and no limits slavery in my mind.

Any slave/sub needs to know what they are getting in to and needs to have a good understanding of what is expected of them.   Some of what you mentioned may be "normal" for some, the furniture restriction, the sleeping arrangments for example.  Not allowing birth control is just plain stupid, especially if no offspring is wanted.

As in any relationship, there is a SHARED responsibility to know what you are getting in to. 

The two inch cutting board, I'm not sure I fully understand how that fits in but I'm guessing it was used as an impact toy.  Well I don't like to cause injury that might cause the need for a trip to the ER, but if the slave doesn't check to make sure the person she's going to be with has self control well I'm sorry for her.  I believe that a major thing that seperates a lifestyle sadist from a drunken woman beater is self control, so, sucks to be her if she didn't know the difference.  As for what was done to her, actually it brings back fond memories of things I've done to people I've been with in the past.  Yum!

Let me ask this, would you consider beating a slave repeatedly till she's black from bruises and you've broken the two inch thick cutting board in the process acceptable or would you consider that to be extreme?  Or how about once you are done, dragging her into the shower, forcing her to her knees and pissing down her throat cause she's not allowed limits?  This all within a day of her moving in.  This is why I started the thread on limits because this did happen to a slave who wasn't allowed limits.  She wasn't allowed to sleep in the bed, sit on furniture or allowed birth control.  But when she came up pregnant, He tried to force her to have an abortion. So tell me, don't you think before entering a no limits situation, you need to think about all the possibilities that can arise and at least mention the ones that concern you most? 

Very interesting question.  I have asked it many times, to potential partners and partners of others in genera conversation.  I always laugh when I hear NO LIMITS or the standard "No k*ds, no scat, no watersports and no visable marks."

My goal with any potential partner is that MY limits are thier limits.  With that in mind, I go in to any conversation with a mental list of what I won't do the candidate (I am not going to kill a good slave, I am not going to cut off body parts, I am not going to deny myself thier presence by having them in jail, I am not going to jail for a conspiracy charge by making them do anything grossly illegal - flasing is illegal in most places I go, so I say grossly as in Felony type crimes), to name just a few.  Naturally, they may have other ideas.  

I think it is only natural that there is some sort of unspoken general limits, as mentioned above for example.  Do I need the candidate to name those? No I don't, but I do need them to name the more acceptable limits they may have, such as no animals (surprised how many don't want it, but forget to mention it), no anal, etc. 

 

I only have a set of questions.  Do you really have to tell your play partner that you don't want to be killed; or that your not willing to kill them?  It just seems a little extreme to me.  Are their alot of people out there who really (IRL) want to be tortured to death?  As far as fetishes those have always struck me as extremely personal.  I have a friend that has a thing for feet that I just can't quite get my mind around and he can't understand how I find shoes boring.  Are any of us really capable of understanding someone elses fantasies and compulsions; or pleasures.

Once the trust is in place, the limits I have and allow are no prison and no cemetary.  That makes it pretty clear what I expect, and also that there is a basic and functional level of safety and sanity in place.

Cudos to Rayne, this says it  best :

In order to enter into this lifestyle one has to be ready to place their lives in someone else's hands. One has to be ready to lay their thoughts on the table and let someone else take them however they want.  And one has to be ready to be completely, brutally honest with themselves and others. Otherwise, scening and/or being owned is dangerous ground. 

"There are a great many that do have death fetishes as well as other things we, as a people, are afraid to discuss. "

I'm sorry rayne..but could you please elaborate alittle on what you mean by "death fetishes"? To my knowledge a fetish is something you do repeatedly and as often as possible. I don't see how death can be labled a "fetish".

Perhaps a death wish. However, how many are going to engage in a relationship with or are looking for someone on a realistic bases who wishes death?

I do recall Master at one time mentioning talking to a girl who had a death fantasy of being spread out on a table like the main course at a succulent banquet, and people eating her alive until her death. I am not sure what "this" has to do with bdsm. I am at the understanding that kinks are more a intrinsic part of bdsm but fetishes are not really or rely on bdsm at all. I know some incorporate those with their bdsm/kinks but I'm not really seeing the fetish connection?

Thankyou in advance

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

fet·ish   [fet-ish, fee-tish] –noun
1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3. Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

As you can see from this definition, the word fetish does not imply habitual use so much as habitual response. A fetish is simply something that always gets you off, whether it's by watching it, participating in it, listening to it, what have you. You were asking about limits and fetishes and fantasies are very much a part of our limits. While a person can have a fantasy or a fetish and not be interested in BDSM, it's difficult to separate our (those of us in the lifestyle) fantasies  and fetishes, or kinks, as you put it, from BDSM.

As for "death fetishes", there are a lot of people who, though they (claim) they would never actually act on them, either by being the victim or being the killer, who fantasize about being tortured to death or torturing someone to death. And rayne does hope you're not sheltered enough to think that snuff films are all just acting. While some are rather convincing acting, there have been cases that have been found to be real. 

What does this have to do with BDSM? Outside the bondage and torture and absolute control the killer has over the victim? Nothing.

As for how many would engage in a relationship that will absolutely end in the death of one or both parties? It happens every day. We're all going to die. And we all knowingly enter into relationships with that understanding. Some at least fantasize, however, about being the one in control of when that end comes.

In any case, the topic of discussion was limits. And rayne's point was that if this is a hard limit for you, you should absolutely point it out when discussing limits. Even in a vanilla relationship, one should never assume that the other has the same ideas as you without getting to know them. This means not assuming you don't have to vocalize things you consider taboo. 

So I ask: When you go to ask someone what their limits are: What exactly is in your mind of what limits are to begin with?

When you go to answer and tell someone your limits: What information is it that you feel they are asking you?

Well Wishes

starshine

Happy slave of Master Delvin

 

With regards to Master Melen and His rayne, when our relationship began to swing in the direction of BDSM, Master gave rayne a lot of things to read to teach her about what she was asking Him about and then a checklist. she filled out the checklist to the best of her ability and they discussed a lot of the things on there. Oddly enough, the list Master found had broken bones, mai.ming, de.ath, ped.ophilia, and a number of other things one wouldn't expect to be asked about on it. 

To be honest, rayne was shocked. she remembers staring at Master in disbelief as she read the list before filling it out. she asked Him about the things that bothered her and He made very clear that He had limits as well and He only wanted to know what hers were.

Maybe it's a communication issue? Maybe it's the fear of actually speaking of these things that makes us feel comfortable with these limits being understood?

To answer your second question, rayne had no idea, coming into this lifestyle, what He really meant by "limits" until He handed her this checklist. And she made no attempt to hide this. 

As for when this one asks someone else? she would expect them to be explicitly clear. Because there is no room for error. There are a great many that do have death fetishes as well as other things we, as a people, are afraid to discuss. 

In order to enter into this lifestyle one has to be ready to place their lives in someone else's hands. One has to be ready to lay their thoughts on the table and let someone else take them however they want.  And one has to be ready to be completely, brutally honest with themselves and others. Otherwise, scening and/or being owned is dangerous ground. In this one's mind, anyway.

Perhaps it is better to talk about My limits, the things I really will not go into, and leave anything else open. If the other party agrees, feels comfy with what I said, then everything else is possible.

Very well stated. Perhaps when we talk about 'NO LIMITS' we are in fact putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. I suggest that defineing limits is a ways down the check list when one is establishing a new BDSM relationship. It would be a wonder if I could ever get a realtionship started by immediatly wanting to establish limits. Run away...Be afraid, Be very afraid! What young man ever went to the prom with his first real date thinking 'I'm not allowed to but my hand in her panties so I'm not even going to try'. What girl would tell her date that and not be dissapointed that he didn't at least try once..."Hello, my limits are...How do you like me so far?" Going that route most of us would end up liveing alone whacking off to Video's .

Wiki says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

Perhaps the word fetish is wrong in the case of this woman but it does seem to fall in the same category as all other fetishes, psychologically speaking.

Following this article, it seems that limits are based on how much psychic disorder we can handle, an interesting thought.