this can be complicated, DOMs have to learn to "read" their subs or slaves. Some don´t want respect, I know

Thank you for puting forward what alot of us come to after some not so nice experiences. It is a learning curve as with anything else and it is nice to know that alot of Doms/Masters do actualy feel the same on here. I bow to all of the real Doms/Masters on here and wish you all the best in finding your sub/slaves.

i agree and also believe the more we highlight these issues the better educated the subs will be. In the end they have the primary decision to hand over part of their lives and the more information available on warning signs, the better. After that we can do little. This certainly is a most interesting discussion and well posted

Greetings Masters and fellow slaves/subs

This slave thanks You for posting this and all of the replies. They actually helped this girl put words to the things she was feeling.

Thank You,
~kajira trinity

LOL one of my sub called me once a toyboy (i usually call my subs, fuckdoll or fucktoy ,,, irrespect ? mmm no, just reality lol)
And i found that a refreshing perspective that was not so untrue
For a sub who is not in TPE but trapped in vanilla, and basically around a level 4 to 5 of BDSM circles (if u know what i mean)
a Dom might be the fullfillment of a fantasy and as such in no point different of a toyboy
Shocking ?

Sir Patrick

Thank you for a refreshing perspective for this site!

Sir,

It is more clear now. i am able to distinguish your perspective of ""fear" within the context of a healthy D/s relationship in the examples you eloquently rendered. i appreciate your candor in the dialogue.

respectfully,
smackdat

@smackdat- I agree with you 100%.
I did not explain in depth my comment about there being a place for fear, which I stand by, but without a FOUNDATION OF RESPECT, fear that enter D/s sessions in particular are NOT helpful, and can contaminate the most vital element of any healthy D/s dynamic: trust...
Although WITH a strong foundation of respect, there is incredible power and potential for transformation (for both top and bottom) when fears arise or are evoked by the scene.

However, I do agree that when the foundation of the relationship fear-- when it is that which primarily controls the sub-- it is instead very traumatizing when some of the very same situations occur or evoked.
I know subs who have been traumatized for years by vicious text messages or emails, you know, 12 mean words or something, simply because the element of fear was so strong within the relationship that when some scary things are said or threatened, it wreaks havoc on the sub's psyche...
Conversely, I know subs who had such profound trust and unshakable faith that their Masters respected them fundamentally and absolutely put their well being as the most primary part of everything that was done, that they could endure many different forms of physical, mental, and emotional torture and be literally different people afterward- better people because of it. Those experiences of moving past fear, empowered in the moment by a desire to please the beloved Master, empowered them to trust themselves and their abilities in a variety of situations in their lives that had nothing directly to do with kink or with sex (well, to the untrained eye that is)

I hope this is more clear.

Thank you Sir Soonerthanow for your kind comments, for taking the time to read the posts, and share your knowledge with the SF Community. Knowledge is power. The SF site provides the perfect forum in which all of us can share and learn.

However i believe there is actually an inverse relationship between respect and fear. Where the submissive feels afraid of her Master, there is likely to be little respect for the Master. If you remove the fear from the equation, the submissive has neither fear of, nor respect for, her Master.

Now her Master has lost control of the submissive. But if the Master has earned the respect of his submissive, he still has a basis of control, even when the threat of physical punishment is removed. Therefore he can be expected to have fewer problems maintaining control of the submissive.

This seems to be the case in actual practice. i have had the privilege of dialogue with Masters who have shared with me that the Dominants who show respect to their submissives have lower levels of discipline and control problems as compared to Dominants who use punishment and threats.

respectfully,
smackdat

A lack of respect indicates 'amateur hour'.
A lack of respect indicates little self-discipline on the part of the, often self-proclaimed, Dom or "Master'.
A skilled Dom is aware that submission is a voluntary relinquishment of personal power - bit by bit - into the hands of a responsible and trusted Dom. A skilled Dom is also aware that the sub's personal power may be resumed by the sub at any time. one is hardly likely to relinquish any personal power into the hands of an amateur tosser who is informed via porn sites and contemporary pulp fiction.

Not earning the respect that he expects is hands down THE biggest red flag when it comes to prospective Doms. The second biggest one talking ad nauseam about all the other subs he has that just can't get enough of his discipline and abuse, but he can't come up with a single one that you can talk to for a ref. The third is not wanting to meet and/or get to know you for a public meet and greet, even though he wants to "train" or use you asap.

I have to say I have had more subs complain of that kind of behavior-often all 3 of those- on this site than any other one. I am not here to bash the site - if I liked nothing about it I wouldn't come on here! But there seems to be a higher concentration of this kind of thing here, for some reason.

And smackdat, your comments are excellent-- you are a great role model for any highly intelligent and strong/powerful woman that would like to explore sexual submission. Although I would say that within an actual D/s or M/s relationship there IS a place for fear, without it there is nothing to transform... But there really is no place for intimidation and fear in the getting acquainted stage. It really is a whole different type a guy who enjoys that kind of thing- to terrorize and demean women online- than the type you can trust while tied up and willing to be beaten and used. To be absolutely certain he has your best interest at heart is the one prerequisite I can't stress enough.

I agree with your comments.

Openly revealing one’s feeling establishes credibility in my book. It takes self-confidence, even courage to be emotionally honest especially in a D/s community where some relationships are solely based on TPE. i bow to your courage to do so Sir. Respect is one of those words that is so widely used it has many different meanings to different people.

In a healthy D/s relationship, respect for each other includes taking your D/s’s feelings, needs, thoughts, ideas, wishes, and preferences in consideration. In the context of this kind of relationship it means taking the above aforementioned seriously and giving them worth and value. It includes acknowledging each other, listening to each other, being truthful to each other, and accepting each other’s individuality and idiosyncrasies. Respect can be shown through behavior and it can also be felt. We can all sense whether we are respected or not. When Dominants are respected, they gain voluntary cooperation of their submissives. When D/s respect one another, there are fewer conflicts. Respect seems to be like a boomerang in the sense that one must send it out before it will come back to you.

Respect cannot be demanded or forced, though sometimes in a D/s relationship people mistakenly believe that it can. There are Doms in the community of BDSM that often expect and try to demand that their submissives show “respect”. However, in a healthy D/s relationship, if the Dom has not first earned respect by showing it (which is done by respecting your submissive’s feelings and needs) they may find their power is actually based on fear. Once a submissive no longer fears the authority of her Dom, then the Dom’s power base quickly disappears out from under them, often leaving them feeling frustrated, powerless, confused, and resentful.

There is a danger mistaken fear as respect: fear is toxic – respect is nurturing; fear destroys self-confidence – respects builds it; fear is life threatening – respect is life enhancing; fear is learned – respect is earned. To confuse the two creates serious problems and understanding of the D/s community. Every human needs to feel respected, even the least powerful. i would go even further to say especially the submissive.

respectfully,
smackdat

This problem pervades most, if not all, online D/s communities. I believe this is largely due to fact most peoples primary exposure to the lifestyle is porn. If you only learned about driving cars from movies like The Fast & The Furious, you'd likely have a very skewed and impractical view of automobile usage. As far as car usage goes most people have enough examples of responsible drivers that they understand those movies are just fantasy. While porn has raised awareness of D/s, BDSM, kink, etc. there are still not many examples of those being portrayed in a positive realistic light in popular mainstream culture. Given this environment it's not surprising that some people might mistake fantasy for reality.

While this isn't an issue that can be resolved over night, we can attempt to educate new people. Since we may be competing with thousands of hours of video wank time, many people will ignore us as killjoys who don't know anything about twue BDSM but we will get through to some. The first group will raise a big fuss but will fade away when their machinations aren't rewarded. The second group might actually become valued members of the community.

Plus some people are just assholes who have trouble socializing in any venue.

I whole heartedly agree with you. It's unfortunate state of affairs. Perhaps you can make a difference? I have put my 2 cents in here and there, but there are some real jackasses. If you think what they say publicly is bad, if you get to talking to subs you'll find that what some of them do privately will make your blood boil.
It's been a great lesson in acceptance and diversity for me to visit this site. I try to offer another perspective and approach to those who may be interacting with these assholes not because they want to, but because they are a little lost. Seems all situations tend to improve when a little healthy competition is introduced.