It does my heart good to see a honest and open intellectual discussion here... ty.

i hope You know by now that real slavery is no longer legal. This means the only option left to people who aspire to get in Master/slave relationship is by getting together with another consenting person. So someone must first be a sub, then has to feel the need to be a slave, then want it and finaly hope to find a Master. So there's no potential slave without the need, want and hope unless You force him/her into submission and mentaly and/or phisicaly brake their needs, wants, hopes but this is not legal so we are back at the beginning.

Through my experience with slaves and finding them two processes come to being.....lets cover them....

1) before internet -

This is where you HAD to mingle with people and go out of your way to find like minded people. This was not always an easy process and usually ended up in seedy bars and backroom booths where you would involve yourself with taboo acts. Now yes, there were places to sit and discuss and until the actual internet exploded we had BBS's, which was used as a the local infomation boards as well as a crude and most times non-working fido. Way before AOL was Qlink and that was a godsend of the times.

You met girls in the normal places and yes including churches (my first slave) where you took her mind to new and strange places and led her on this jouney of slavery...it was hard work for both but at no time was the slave treated as a mindless drone in fact, it was the smart ones most of us sought :)....

2) The Internet -

Well, lets cover this in a fast label...."Sheeeeeesh"....  everyone from grandma to that horny teen could be anything you wanted them to be....the roleplaying exploded and chat rooms filled nightly on places like powwow and aol. Until the cam really came to be, where you could actually SEE one another, the phone was your only recourse to see if who you were talking to was actually who they claimed.... (Men being women ?.....)....So really,. with this explotion of terms and labels, we come to where we are now, attempting to redefine what was at one time already defined. A slave was a slave a Master was a Master and all else fell into place as needed.

Be it prior to the internet or in a chat room now, I have yet to understand the thought that a girl is suppose to come in, sit and wait to be plucked out of her little fantasy and become some random slave for someone. The auction blocks of years past are long gone now, where this statement would be half correct, it didn't matter what a slave wanted because it was simply a matter of being bought, taken home and put to work....didnt want to work ?...simple...sell them off, beat them into submission or kill them....depending on the Master's loss or gain...

We don't do that now nor did we do that then when this was still a very closeted lifestyle labeled with taboo after taboo. A girl has every right to display what it is she is looking for and wants. It is STILL the Master's role to evaluate that girl and decide if it is something he wishes to work with. But to go around and say "your not a slave because..." is irresponsible and damaging to the would-be new slaves who wish to find out if this is in fact the road they need to be on.

After all these years, I have yet to find a ready-mix slave who knows all the rules, understands her role completely and stands at the ready to be collared...ever...

Master D

 

Greetings..~smiles~

"My main point is we see on many sites I am a slave. But i will not go with a mixed race, so and so aged, invalid or incapacitated person. It makes a mockery of true slaves and belittles their existence. Of course this begs the question what is the alternative in terms of servitude? A submissive is many things, should we not look more for means to clarify their qualities. "------------------------

The terms Master/slave and slavery developed from the legal institution of slavery. The laws made the rules which governed the Master/Owners with regards to what they could or could not do with slaves. The laws "allowed" slavery to exist.

Those rules common then are now Not enforced or backup'd by the government nor society. Slaves back then did not opt or seek out to be enslaved. They did not opt or seek to escape society.  They did not opt or seek to be controlled. For most through out history it was a forced situation and enforced by laws. Even with legal enforcement and accpetance..those taken into or born into existing slavery refused to work, ran, had uprisings even in the face of knowing it would most likely bring them severe punishment/death..but they did those things none the less. They were not mindless drones.

Most coming to these points in their lives recognize that they "wish or voluntarily" no longer want to be in control. They opt and seek to remove themselves of that control, and societys ills. They opt and seek to give up "use" of the rights the laws say they have...not that they don't have them. They have choice, and it is only them who can say when and where "those choices" will be freely given up to another.

People who come to a determination that they are slaves or wish to journey down that path will not automatically know and be. It is a long process to "undo" the use of choice, and rights that they were born with and lived with. Until they have time in being owned by a Master that can enslave them..those will not just magically disappear.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

When a slave says " I want..." or "I need..." or "I hope to .." she is neither slave, sub or bottom....

While I understand the sentiment I I have to disagree with this statement. I can say with all honesty that while a slave should trust their Masters judgment completely, that kind of trust is difficult to keep continuously.

Why is this sounding unMasterly (if such a word exists). Either a "S" trusts or does not surely. It is incumbent on every Master to maintain trust on a submissive. On a slave however he/she can feel as insecure as he/she wants, he/she is a slave, so the subject has no validity.
I never said that a slaves insecurity had any barring on her Masters actions but rather that it was the reason for her voicing her desire, after all whether slave or Master if you desire something that is not being fulfilled it is a fundamental need to express it even if you know that it will not be fulfilled.

So often time when a Slave says they want need or hope something they are simply pointing out a fact to their Master.

No they are pointing out the Master is not a Master but a master without the experience and knowledge to treat them as they deserve. On the other hand I agree if this is a submissive we are talking about.
Again you misinterpret the meaning they are not pointing out their Masters inexperience but they are acting on an insecurity that their Master is not for whatever reason going to fulfill that desire or need and are looking for their Master to simply make notice of it

We must remember too that even though a slave may treat their Master like god we are only human and as such make mistakes, (A Master will make mistakes, so what! If a sub is involved then she may offer her opinion if asked, but it is the Masters role, for good or ill, to make the decision and stick to it. He is the Man, so act like a man and take the shit if it splashes up, or the glory if it works wonders.)
Exactly my point, we make mistakes, and a slave as a living sentient being, property or not, may become worried that her Master has made a mistake and not noticed something. It is not in a slaves power to read the thoughts and actions of her Master and therefore she cannot tell if her Master simply has not acknowledged her need or desire or has not anticipated it, that is why a slave may voice that desire or need. When this is done there is no malice on the part of the slave just worry and desire, a drive far stronger than fear.
this is why any good Dom or Master keeps an emergency kit close at hand.

(Sorry completely lost me here, what is an emergency kit when it is at home? You mean a tissue to wipe the poor subjects nose no doubt).
Actually I'm referring to a zip knife to cut bonds, and a pair of bolt cutters for the same reason not to mention a first aid kit and disinfectant in case something unforeseen happens like an anchor on a suspension rig breaking or a knot fusing during fire play or a lock jamming or an infected cut or splinter or any one of the ten thousand things that no one can see coming and could very easily cost a slave her usefulness.
This said it is possible to misinterpret the degree of a slave's need, want, or hope.

As I said while I understand the sentiment here, I cannot agree with it. We are human, humans make mistakes, to believe that you can anticipate every thought in another persons head and account for it is not only arrogant but foolhardy as well. So to say that a slave who expresses an unfulfilled want need or hope is automatically not a slave just as arrogant and foolhardy.

Yes humans make mistakes, be a man for god sake and as pointed out get the shit or glory, but stick with it and be a Master not a master playing at it. When things go wrong who is to blame? The master surely? So whats the problem with that?
There is no problem with the Master taking responsibility, in fact I sincerely wish that more people in this world took responsibility for their actions rather than buck passing or making excuses. But what I am saying here is that we must always remember we can make mistakes, when a slave expresses a desire or need she is not making a personal attack on you but is expressing a worry that something was missed by her Master and simply wants acknowledgment of that desire or need. Whether it was truly missed or simply ignored is something the slave does not know and it is her worry. A slave's lot in life is to serve her Master and bring him pleasure and happiness, when her Master does not acknowledge something she becomes worried, not about her Masters fallibility because as I said it is a in escapable fact that he is fallible, but is worried that she has made a mistake and is being punished for it or no longer is pleasing her Master enough.

Yiou do not have to account for anything in a slaves head, for obvious reasons. In a subs head maybe yes, but nto a slave. My point here is that a slave has wants, needs, desires, thoughts, and opinions. Does this make it encumbent for the owner to meet these? For a sub of course but for a slave no and thrice no!
Yes a slave has needs wants and desires, opinions and thoughts were never part of this discussion, and because they exist they need to be dealt with in some way, to say that a Master has no need to account for the contents of a slaves mind is simply wrong. These wants, needs and desires are what make a slave, a slave and are what made them come to you in the first place. We live in a vanilla world where it is easier for a person or any age sex race or creed to simply live a vanilla life, but these slaves wanted and needed and desired to be dominated and controlled and punished so badly they went through the hardship and struggle to become a slave and find a Master. I cannot guess how may troll, morons, fakes, wannabes, control freaks, misogynists or feminazi's the average slave has to go through to find a real Master these days and more over to find one who's method of slavery is extreme enough without being too extreme for them. These wants needs and desires do not simply vanish the moment they find a Master they love but in fact become stronger because they have someone they want to experience them with. If you take these desires and needs away you would no longer have a slave, just a regular person. how you deal with these needs and desires is between a Master and his slave. Whether you chose to fulfill or even acknowledge them or not is up to you but they must be dealt with in some way.

I did not say a slave cannot ask for anything. Nor did I say a slave may need something. What I said is that they do nto have to be met as opposed to a subs requests. For even in this case it is encumbemnt on the Master to decide and make a decision. If it is contrary to herhis wishes she/he will understand and accept that a Master makes decisions, a sub abides by them. If he uses her desires without his authority he is not a master nor a dom nor even a man but a wussy.
Actually you did say a slave can't ask for something, asking for something is expressing a want and you did not say they may need something but it need not be met you said and I quote " slave never needs, wants or hopes anything". So are you changing your mind now or was your first post unclear?

Yes but a slave is not consulted like a sub is. She is just a slave who performs her tasks adn gains fulfillment from attaining a standard she sets for herself. If this standard is to low she/he will find out about it quickly. If she then raises the game she knows that she is being the best she can be. So she has to think. She has to do. She has to be.
Actually a slave is consulted, its the slave choice who will own them and it is at that time they are consulted about what they want so that the Master can find a slave to his liking and the slave will find a Master that will fulfill most at least of what she wants needs and desires.

Consider this; we are all slaves. A housewife, contemparary or ancient stayed at home to do housekeeping. Does she get paid? A child who looks after an invalid parent is she a slave? anyone who does something for nothing are they slaves? Now consider a man who works, is he a slave? In a way all of these are. The exceptions are what? Being able to leave and go do something elsewhere? But they are still slaves really.
Actually none of these are slaves, because a slave by definition cannot leave unless they are released by their owner. A housewife can get a divorce or run off with the pool boy, a child can abandon a parent and many do, all those volunteer workers are not slaves because they can quit at any time and never go back, a man who works can quit to find a new job or to go live on the streets. None of these are slaves and never will be the difference between a slave and a person is will, a slaves will is part of her Masters and it is the Masters responsibility to maintain that will and keep them as one.

My main point is we see on many sites I am a slave. But i will not go with a mixed race, so and so aged, invalid or incapacitated person. It makes a mockery of true slaves and belittles their existence. Of course this begs the question what is the alternative in terms of servitude? A submissive is many things, should we not look more for means to clarify their qualities.
No it doesn't belittle True slaves, these are slaves but to a different degree, where do you thing the phrase True slave came from? These people merely know what they want and desire and understand that if they are going to belong to someone for the rest of their lives they will need to be able to be happy and at least be in part fulfilled. You like to quote history then you will know that in every army the conscripted soldiers, little more than slaves with weapons, were often the poorest fighters, in some cases such as the roman legionaries, who were treated better than some of the merchants and most peasants, these slaves became good soldiers but only by making their lives good enough that the alternative was worse. To serve a Master well a slave needs to be happy serving her Master and needs to be fulfilled to do so, for a slave to say there are things they want or don't want in a Master is part of making sure they will be fulfilled.

I find it funny how often people talk about how wanting a Master that is compatible to a slave violates the principle of being a slave and therefore they should be called a submissive but there is never any question of how a Master wanting only a certain type of slave violates the principle of being a Master. It seem that very often people forget that slaves are still free people with all the rights of a free person till they are collared. I would ask as well why there is alway call for a clearer definition of what is a slave and what is a submissive when the line is already clearly there, a submissive has choices and freedom and can say "no" to their Master where as a slave has no choice freedom or the right to say "no".

   while i understand what House is saying he  may need to consider not all are like him ~my Torturer would never do for a mindless drone, He loves me alive intelligent and the fact that when together i can anticipate His needs and hold a intelligent conversation with Him ~a dumb slave would never do for Him while i do agree with 99.5 percent of all my Torturer says, He loves when i engage Him. He also tries His hardest to teach me things as of late we've been discussing the election so not everyone wants a mindless drone the time management alone would be overwhelming for most. once again i must say i thank god for my Torturer mmmmmm such a brilliant, cruel, beautiful, creative, kind Man that owns me not to mention oh so very handsome. i'm grateful to be His property, thank you Master for being all that You are~

Sits here thinking, Necrophilia fits the bill.....

Only works if you achieve your childhood abmition of becomming county coroner.

What is required is a wilingness to give of herself wholly without thought. To be controlled for every moment of every second of its existence.

Sits here thinking, Necrophilia fits the bill.....

The standard idea, a slave is just property...but

Since when has mankind produced an automative being, one incapable of thinking? 

Each and everyone of us has desires, aspirations, hopes.

Including a slave.

To be owned, used, directed and controlled, yes, but then the slaves wish is to do its utmost to please its Master. To know what they enjoy, to know how to please them, without always having to be directed.

How mentally tiring it would be for a Master, to direct their slave all their waking hours.

Surely a Master would appreciate the thoughts that bring the slave unbidden, to perform, or carry out, something that brings a smile to the Masters face....

 

 

When a slave says " I want..." or "I need..."  or "I hope to .." she is neither slave, sub or bottom....

 While I understand the sentiment I I have to disagree with this statement. I can say with all honesty that while a slave should trust their Masters judgment completely, that kind of trust is difficult to keep continuously. So often time when a Slave says they want need or hope something they are simply pointing out a fact to their Master. We must remember too that even though a slave may treat their Master like god we are only human and as such make mistakes, this is why any good Dom or Master keeps an emergency kit close at hand. This said it is possible to misinterpret the degree of a slave's need, want, or hope. 

As I said while I understand the sentiment here, I cannot agree with it. We are human, humans make mistakes, to believe that you can anticipate every thought in another persons head and account for it is not only arrogant but foolhardy as well. So to say that a slave who expresses an unfulfilled want need or hope is automatically not a slave just as arrogant and foolhardy. 

Greetings..~smiles~

When a slave says " I want..." or "I need..."  or "I hope to .." she is neither slave, sub or bottom.

Sorry but has to disagree with this as is stated. Do you honestly think that when slavery was legal and practiced on a wide scale across the globe that those slaves taken did not have wants, needs, hopes, dreams, aspirations? Do you honestly believe that they didn't wish or long for freedom or control of their own lives? Wether such was ever uttered to a Owner matters not but you can guarantee they thought and talked amongst themselves about their wants, needs, and hopes. Will also go out further that it was these wants, needs, and hopes that kept most of their spirits intact to endure and survive.

If it were stated that the slave "demanded" and if didn't get they acted out or flat out left..then probably would agree. However, if they are mindful of their place and "ask respectfully" of their Owner, and abide there after from the Owners decision..finds no fault or failings of them being a slave, sub, or bottom.

Well Wishes
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

rlslavery ought to be required reading for anyone who thinks he or she is or wants to be a slave. I get so damn tired of wanna bes that act like the are put out when a Master or Mistress gives them direction that they dont agree with. Agree with??? What the hell is that? A slave has NO rights, owns NOTHING, asks NO questions and has NO expectations. A slave exsists ONLY to submit, to serve, to obey, to please, to give pleasure and to profit its Master. This and NOTHING more. Wanna bes --- if this offends you go get under the covers, get your dildos out, close your eyes and pretend you are really a part of this lifestyle.

I wonder if you have ever encountered, and I have no affiliation to them, www.rlslavery.com.

It is a very intense site and speaks somewhat like you do but it speaks of my reality and truth. 

Have you ever been there or would you be willing to check it out and let me know if your beliefs are compatible with it?